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Cake day: October 11th, 2023

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  • (For ease of reading I’ve once again broken it down. Man, these cold meds are great!)

    Ah, I’m afraid you’ve missed the core thesis of what me might politely call my ‘disjointed ramble’.

    What I meant:

    In 40k, it’s not that “no sides are good” or “everyone is evil”, it’s that comparison of all the players on the stage is fundamentally meaningless when they’re viewed through a lens that reduces them to such a simplistic binary. When examined, the Imperium’s actions are usually rational (the Kryptman Gambit is a classic example) but undeniably horrible. It’s the dark comedy of the setting, that any actions can be justified given enough context or rhetoric or simple need. A similar issue occurs when reducing the Jedi as they are presented in the movie-canon to “statist cops”. They don’t perform law enforcement duties, they don’t police space. Their only role in the republic was as historians, until Palpatine insisted they be instated as Generals in the Republic’s war against the separatists, a role they themselves argued they were unqualified for and did not want. Thence they were branded traitors, hunted down to near extinction as a result. To brand them as ‘spacecops’ loses so much of (what passes for, in George Lucas’ mind) the narrative lore or nuance of the characters.

    Few people judge the Russian people as anything except victims - certainly not as a monolithic group. That’s the classic tragedy of war, isn’t it. Young men die for the ambitions of old men. They’re being forced, through politics or propaganda or nationalism or even personal creed, to inflict horrors on another people. If some are enthusiastic participants, those individuals are especially guilty. But if you continue to support a regime that produces those horrors and protects the perpetrators, time and time again, doesn’t some of the guilt lay on you for their actions? Is it fair, then, to view Russia as a diverse tapestry of complex moralities? Of interplaying guilt and support?
    Yes.
    Absolutely.

    On Tankies:

    This is the critical thing that I think separates a Tankie from “just someone I disagree with”. The concept that I don’t support the war in ukraine, that I don’t support those horrors, and yet that I am not afraid of accepting the guilt that comes with supporting the Ukrainian right to choose their own fate. The failure to grasp that concept, that’s the single defining trait. War is horror, but why is it the sole responsibility of people who’s land has been invaded, who’s homes are being destroyed, who’s children are being raped, stolen, executed en masse to accept the guilt for this war? Why would it be the sole responsibility of the invaders to accept the guilt for their captured soldiers being executed by the AFU?

    My actions and choices during this war have lead me to carry far more guilt than yours have, I am willing to bet a great deal of money on that. I took those actions and made those choices with the full knowledge of what they would lead to, and I accepted those consequences readily. I don’t know if I’d make the same choices again, but that’s beside the point: I am not unique, nor special. Everyone fighting for their homeland with the AFU, or fighting for whatever reason they were told with the HPA or Putin’s so-called “new axis”, accepted that same burden and is being asked to make the same kind of choice. Reducing it to a binary, good vs. evil, either a warmonger or a peace-bringer, cheapens the sacrifices of people who have to make that choice, no matter which side you or they are on.

    On Juche:

    (I usually loathe to use the quote -> respond format, but I’ve been trying to figure out how to work in a response to this naturally and I’ve just failed. )

    Every other war has also been heavily propagandized, including the Korean and Cold war, which is why you have the idea that something like Juche is cartoonishly evil rather than the product of its environment - I try to approach understanding any subject by reading what the people who believe in it actually say, as well as what criticism there is from people with a similar ideology, as often their enemies are often just preaching to the choir.

    I think I do understand what you mean here, and I’m increasingly sure we’d get along quite well in person. And so I would like to express, and I say this with nothing but sincerity, that I am worried your approach to contentious or propagandized topics (while a genuinely laudable magnanimous outlook to have) may too easily lead you into unfairly restricting your sources of criticism. Extrapolated out to an extreme degree, it’s easily to extend holding internal criticism in the highest regard to the point that outside perspectives can be dismissed with “Ah, but how can he criticize society without participating in society?” While a good place to start on any topic is obviously those most familiar with the topic, and the entire discipline of academia is based on this principle, it’s a viewpoint which can be all too easily manipulated so that you are only shown curated, or propagandized, accounts of a system.

    To carry forward the example of Juche:

    We have the selected writings, accounts, essays, stated principals etc. of Kim Il-Sung, and while we can no doubt both agree that the accounts we have are heavily edited version of the original works, we can also probably agree that those edits were made with his full knowledge and approval. They do, in short, say what he meant.

    What he meant, too, were understandable goals. Independence, self reliance, security of ‘hearth and thought’ (I assume this is a catchier slogan in korean). Freedom from the influence of outside governments, defense of their interpretation of socialism since, though it might not be what others consider the best, it is what we consider the best. So on and so forth, nationalism through a socialist approach. And, were you to read only their accounts, they succeeded spectacularly.

    But that doesn’t quite square with the realities they show us. We know how, for decades, they have been extremely reliant on US and South Korean humanitarian aid deliveries. This is exhaustively documented, and while I feel there is no shame in accepting those handouts especially as they have been effectively isolated from all larger markets (which was sort of their goal, I know that’s not 100% right but this is already 12 paragraphs), they fervently deny their acceptance of this aid even on an international stage. Why? And who should we believe, those critical of the system that point to this as a failure of the core principles of Juche, or those who practice Juche, who either deny or fabricate justifications for accepting this aid?

    There’s massive portraits of Kims Jong-Un, Jong-Il and Il-Sung. National pride is all well and good, and we have mount rushmore after all. But, while there’s active and very publicized legal attempts to demolish Rushmore as a tacky monument built on sacred, stolen land, there’s only one of those featuring the ‘founding fathers’. You can see, even on google maps, dozens upon dozens of murals, statues, rose-gardens grown in the shape of their portraits. They have celebrations and venerate those three men as unto gods themselves. Is this Juche? It’s not in the original works, it’s certainly not discussed by DPRK public statements. Nor is it broadly discussed by their allies, what few of them they have.

    So who do we turn to learn about this? Survivors, those self-styled escapees who tell us of their experiences, are the usual route. But can we believe them? They would seem to have little reason to lie about their experiences, KR doesn’t treat them terribly well so they clearly aren’t being bribed. But the stories they bring us are… horrifying. Institutionalized sex slavery of highschool girls. Executions by anti aircraft cannon. People made to celebrate until they collapse, then are beaten until they stand again or die from their injuries. Generations of families held hostage, concentration camps for political enemies and foreign captives alike. Gassings, lack of sewer systems, rampant corruption, roman decimation of underperforming military units.

    Those are the stories we hear from the people critical of Juche rule, the few who are able to speak about their experiences freely. We do not know what those who live under the DPRK’s rule have to say, because they have no mouth from which to scream. Even if they did find one, it’s claimed they and everyone related to them would be killed. How do you rate their credibility? I wholly believe some of it is exaggerated. Claims of execution by mortar are just… well having tried to aim mortars, they’re either made up or it’s the most tedious execution ever. But… how do you rate these stories? Who do you believe? How can you be sure that, in a drive to find the most reasonable truth, you aren’t discounting outliers that appear extreme because they’re either propaganda or… just impossibly horrible? Especially in a situation where the only other data being presented is so clearly and openly curated to appear moderate.

    I am very sincerely asking, I would absolutely like to know your perspective here. It’s not a question to which I think I have a satisfying answer.

    (Addendum:)

    In the most exhaustively well documented example we have of the AFU executing prisoners, the executed prisoners had filmed themselves gang-raping a child. Extrajudicial killing is fundamentally wrong, and I condemn them sincerely for their actions, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t understand their choice. And to their credit, the AFU has not in any way attempted to cover up the actions or to excuse the prosecution of the soldiers that did it. Though, I doubt they’d be able to fill a full firing squad of men who would be willing to pull the trigger.


  • (A spoiler heavy bonus rant about the current star-wars narrative.)

    Since I’ve got fuck all else to do while I’m down with this cold, here’s a rant:

    The new movies are bad. Bad bad. Really, tediously bad.

    Okay To be fair, the newest 3 movies have some great scenes in them. The battle of Crait and Luke, the Supremacy hyperspace jump, Porgs, the flying woman scene, the shiny woman that never comes up again after the first movie. Luke drinking raw green space cow milk (yeah, that happens).

    But the rest, it’s just so meh. It falls flat, and it’s made all the worse because there’s some truly great ideas in it, then it gets all disney’d up. Seriously, their stand-in for Vader throws a temper tantrum in an elevator and then smashes up his helmet. The big evil twist is that, get this, the big evil sith is the protag’s father. No seriously, they do that again. And it’s palpatine this time, they brought him back because nobody could figure out how to make the BBEG ‘snoke’ actually scary. Oh, and Big Papa P’s evil plan? What if every ship had a death star laser mounted on it! Muahahaha! Oh and then Rey and Kylo… uh, pull a lightsaber out of their ears? That scene was baffling.

    But I’ll confess that I do actually like Rey’s character and feel she is actually a decent addition to the Disney princess lineup, and as children’s movies go, they’re really not that egregious.

    Anyways If you want genuinely good starwars content, The Mandalorian is incredible. It’s basically Lone Wolf And Cub, but in space, with an insane budget and gorgeous practical effects done by Legacy Effects, a company founded by Stan Winston’s four most prodigal students. As a puppetry and SFX nerd it’s an absolute buffet of beautiful content. Also they got Taika Watiti, Rachel Morrison and Jon Favreau to direct some of it, Werner Herzog guest stars (and yelled at them until they kept the puppet they were using for rehearsals instead of having a CG baby yoda), it’s actually just super fun.

    After the 2nd season, the plot switches over to “The Book Of Boba Fett” (or as it’s popularly known, “Dances With Bantha”), a show I absolutely adore because someone finally, after years of us begging and pleading and signing petitions, finally let the Wookiepedia editors write a show. It’s not a good show, it must be said. In fact it’s so bad that it just stops in the middle to become The Mandalorian again for a few episodes, I assume so you don’t completely give up on it, but at least it’s short…! And to it’s credit it does actually really ‘humanize’ the native population of Tatooine, which is a big point in it’s favor.


  • (It’s a wall of text so I broke it down into sections)
    (My apologies if you’re on mobile and the spoilers don’t work)

    Alright, I’m super game to talk about media to illustrate my point:

    Old Republic

    Okay, this is a pretty critical set of plot points:

    First: the jedi supported the Old Republic, which was a republic. Not an empire. The Empire’s first act was to slaughter the Jedi wholesale. And, the Jedi and the Old Republic together outlawed slavery and emancipated the slaves, often quite violently, ages before the events of the prequels.

    Second: Tatooine, that inexplicably plot critical dirtball on the outer rim, was not a Republic world. Thats why Obi-Wan hid Luke and himself there after Palpatine founded the empire (Tatooine remained separate from the empire too), why Jabba runs his crime empire from there and why Qui-Gon had to put his ship up as collateral in his pod racing bet to free Anikan - Watto wouldn’t accept republic credits, the only currency Qui-Gon had, because they were near enough valueless on Tatooine, and they had no jurisdiction or other resources being that they were on an independent planet.

    Thought Crimes

    If the risk of self-regulated psychic cops is not “getting prosecuted for having bad opinions”, or other variations on thinking thoughts that should not be thunk, than I’m not really sure what the problem is. But, if you’re at all serious about what hypothetically happens when telepathy is regulated by the state, the Psi-Corps from Babylon 5 is an incredibly well thought out example. If you haven’t ever seen the show, I highly recommend it. It’s the only piece of media I’ve found that has managed to make scenes of several people sitting around trying to not have a war feel as intense as the countless franchises that use a generic galactic war as a backdrop. Plus, Vir is my spirit animal (or it’s a peterbilt 389, it’s possible I’m really bad at being religious).

    40K

    This one is actually really important here (this is the only time in my life I’m ever going to say those words about Warhammer 40,000): The Imperium Of Man isn’t evil. Nothing in 40k is evil. Nothing in 40k is good, either, but explicitly nothing is evil. Classically: Khorne is the god of honor, family, faith and self determination. Nurgle is the god of life. Slaneesh is the god of love. Tznetch is the final boss of dyslexia. In 30k, the chaos space marines had a point when they launched the heresy - the Emperor really was hiding critical truths from them in his genocidal purge. And at the same time, the Emperor was right to hide those truths (except from magnus) because the knowledge of what he was really attempting would have itself stirred rebellion (unless he’d just fucking told magnus).

    In M.41, the Imperium is a totalitarian dictator state which is so brutal, corrupt and repressive that it defies description. But they’re not, you know, wrong to be that way. Knowledge of Chaos literally corrupts. A single witch left to their own devices has, time and time again, brought about the torturous deaths or total annihilation of trillions of otherwise innocent souls. The imperial cult isn’t like real world state religions because there is real, tangible proof of what they preach. Every voidship relies on the burning pyre of His will, manifested. Every sanctioned psyker draws their control and resolve from His light. The faith of Ministorum preachers truly can drive back the forces of chaos, and as each lowly preacher or confessor’s faith is bolstered by the faith of their flock, so too does that faith bolster His own might, and allow Him on Earth to act - through the subtle workings of the Tarot to the martial prowess of the Adepta Sororitas or the might of an awakened Living Saint. And if humans turn their souls from His light, it bolsters His enemies tenfold. Losing faith in the emperor truly might bring about the extermination of humanity.

    Boy, that's sure a lot of words I don't want to read - what's your point?

    Okay yeah, fair enough:

    The whole of the 40k universe exists in shades of grimdark. This is the point of the entire setting. No faction is good, no faction is evil, they just exist. There’s no hope, that’s the joke. Fundamentally, the Imperium would collapse into ruin and death without the supporting bonds that are crushing the life from it’s bloated carcass. It’s a dark satire. There’s no good guys. And while the Jedi were characterized by a man who’s literary skill is best expressed with crayons, they’re still a more complicated faction than you’re giving them credit for.

    So critically, if you can’t understand the motivations behind the two protagonist factions in two of the largest pieces of media in the whole of human history, media written not for it’s depth of political complexity but for it’s ease of digestion by (lets be honest) the lowest common nerd denominator, why do you think your understanding of the situation in Ukraine is going to be more reasonably concluded?

    No, seriously. “Because it’s a real world event and I don’t care about fantasy” just doesn’t cut it here. The political machinations of starwars are entwined within every weft of the west’s social tapestry. Wookiepedia is the largest repository of meta-narrative lore that exists. The UA war is the most heavily propagandized hot conflict in history. You can’t just go out and binge a .wikia about it and think that your conclusion is correct.

    And lets be extra clear here, I don’t disagree with this statement:

    I think the causes America chooses to support are the ones which benefit it geopolitically, regardless of how “worthy” their cause

    I totally agree. In fact I’d even go even further and say that’s true of literally every country in the world. In this case though, the continuation of the conflict is being supported materially by every European country, NATO, The United States and a comedically overwhelming percentage of the Ukrainian population themselves. You’d be hard pressed to find someone more critical of the US government’s foreign policy than I am, and even I think that opposing a coalition made up of North Korea, China and Russia (stars of the hit show “The Bachelor But With Sex Slaves And Genocide”) is pretty justified. I mean, fuck, Juche is almost cartoonishly evil. Maybe, just this once, the entire western world isn’t wrong to involve themselves militarily in a conflict (the linguistic irony is palpable in that statement) despite it directly benefiting them by strengthening their food, energy, geopolitical, geographical and cultural security.

    (And, to address the blatant ‘whattaboutism’ in the room, yeah. The US is wrong on Israel/Palestine. Israel brutally murdered my babysitter when I was younger, I won’t be happy until they get crushed into nothingness for the crimes they have wrought - because unlike the US, or Russia, or China, they can’t claim to have done any good for the world. Even North Korea gives out more humanitarian aid than Israel.)

    I’ll be at the pro-Palestine protests and the pro-Ukraine rallies this week.

    Will you be at either?

    Addendum:

    No, the tau aren’t the good guys. Their unity is the result of secret mind control perpetrated by the incredibly small Ethereal caste. Also, you know, Caste system.


  • Of everything you could choose to criticize the jedi for, of all the many things you could choose, Thought Crimes and Qui-Gon emancipating Anikan is what you go with? I mean, christ, I just said that to point out how cliché your response was, I did not think you’d actually roll with the idea I was comparing you to Darth Fucking Vader.

    Honestly there’s not much more for me to say to this. Between that and you revealing that you think the imperium is evil (which… uhm… buddy you’ve missed the entire joke) I think you’ve made your grasp of political nuance pretty explicit. I won’t even try to figure out what you mean by saying ukranians aren’t a monolith, or that there have been ukranians dying in wars prior to 2022. Obviously this is true? You do know about the annexation of crimea, right? Or… essentially the entire history of Ukraine? Or every other country? And the active genocide Russia is carrying out on the Ukranian people, you know about that?

    Sheesh. Opposition to war with russia does not infantalize Ukrainians, nor does it make one a tankie. War is bad. If I had a magic wand, I’d end the war in a second. I’ve been to wars, I know exactly how awful they really are. But, opposing war with russia because you think Ukraine are the aggressors, or that any violence is to be opposed even self defence, or because one is deluded enough to think that ukranians are somehow being tricked into fighting this war by evil nato arms companies, is what makes someone a tankie. The Ukrainian people have had a war forced on them by russia, and none of them wanted this.





  • From my position, the jedi are evil!

    Man, they weren’t kidding about those federation issues. Just now got the notification here. Listen, you’re not wrong that people are reactionaries, this is the internet. Many people need to either figure out they aren’t welcome, or figure out a less confrontational way to present their ideas (me included, often).

    But all that said: there’s a difference between “I think anarchists are largely naive at best” and “This person is a tankie”. I can (and frequently do) disagree with all manner of left-slash political opinions, and I’m perfectly happy to coexist with them since they often have perfectly good ideas that come from a position I disagree with, but can accept.

    What I can’t abide, and what the above asshole espouses, is the brainless regurgitation of pro-russian propaganda. Ideas like “enabling the AFU’s continued defense of Ukraine is unconscionable and the guilt for all the innocent deaths lay at the feet of NATO for enabling this war to continue” are what makes someone a tankie, and are what that person keeps saying. That’s the shit they get pushback on (and which they fail to understand the negative reactions to), because they’re too self-centered to realize that Ukranians aren’t some innocent babes in the wood lead astray by a wolf. They are a people who have fought and died, for hundreds of years, to secure their fucking right to choose the fates they make for themselves. The choice to lay down one’s life for a cause they believe in, that they dictate, is one every culture holds absolutely sacred. How many martyred anarchists are there, who’s names live on in the creed of those who come after them? I’m not even an anarchist and I can think of dozens.

    A situation has arisen which has lead so, so many to make that choice, and while every life lost here is a tragedy I grieve over every day, infantilizing the people who’s lives are freely given? The people who’s lives are being stolen from them? The ones who’ve been found with their hands still bound, dumped in mass graves? The busses full of stolen children, who will never be seen again?

    THAT is what makes this jackass a fucking tankie.



  • Sure, but it does speak to that user’s definition, which is what they were talking about. And honestly, their definition is pretty much the standard. ‘A pejorative term for supporters of authoritarian regimes, particularly communist ones’ is the definition in some form across every site I’ve turned up in the thirty seconds I spent on this. It’s what everyone else in this thread appears to be using. Seems like its pretty agreed on.







  • Pretty much this. How many artists did you follow on, say, reddit? There were so few on there, and those that were there mainly linked to alternate social media and just used reddit to get engagement. Lemmy is probably the most approachable activitypub interface (we all remember trying to find the damn content on mastadon/bluesky…) and it’s just not big or established enough to be worth trusting. Hopefully that will start changing soon as more people hop over from the myriad other sites, we seem to be past the critical point for new users, but it just takes time.



  • Warl0k3@lemmy.worldtoGames@lemmy.worldNostalgia and remake culture
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    1 month ago

    You’ve a winning argument, to be sure! Not sure where I quantified how much I think hollywood influences culture but okay.

    FWIW, obviously popular media both is influential and responds to culture. “Hollywood” really shouldn’t be treated as a singular entity if we’re trying for a semblance of legitimacy. This is really quickly going to fall into a discussion of the role of the audience and how that’s changed in the digital era (vs. when Aristotle first brought it up…), and neither of us care enough to suffer through thay. Suffice to say it’s not cut and dry, and beyond that I dont know any better than you do what specific impact they have (and neither do they).


  • Warl0k3@lemmy.worldtoGames@lemmy.worldNostalgia and remake culture
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    1 month ago

    This is a real Im14AndThisIsDeep meme. More people have access to platforms where they can share their creative works than at any other point in human history, if you aren’t seeing it then you’re not really trying to find it. That point would be fair, too; its hard to find original content (even more so with the rise of AI-driven SEO). It’s not the trend in hollywood, but hollywood doesn’t define culture NEARLY as much as they’d like to think they do…)