• rovingnothing29@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    It’s ironic that a platform hell bent on providing DMR-free games and preserving them doesn’t seem interested in supporting the one OS in-line with their views.

  • MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    I’m not trying to defend anyone here, though it might seem like that, but I’m not sure why valve is lumped in with this, especially since that’s the steam logo.

    Steam, as a platform, hasn’t released much of anything, ever. Valve has been sitting mostly on the sidelines since half-life 2 episode 2 and HL:Alyx.

    Steam itself is just a marketplace.

    I get that a lot of publishers on steam will fall into the categories of games that are the subject of the meme, but I have a hard time piling steam with the games that are published on it.

    And yes, corporations are not our friends, and all billionaires are bad billionaires, eat the rich and all that… I’m just saying. There’s a lot of bigger, much worse, fish to fry than gaben, valve, and steam in this discussion. That could have been EA’s logo, or the Xbox logo (or ms game studios or whatever) or any number of massive publishers that are relevant here. Using the steam logo is lazy at best.

    • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
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      6 days ago

      People are stupid and think steam is drm. It’s that simple. For what ever reason people don’t realize that 95% of all games on steam are entirely drm free. Just remove the overlay and you don’t even need steam turned on to play games.

      • LwL@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        Steam also offers DRM, it’s just up to devs to use it. And steams DRM is relatively unintrusive.

        I think steam should maybe be in the middle, and the other 2 far on the left.

      • dogs0n@sh.itjust.works
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        6 days ago

        I think it’s lumped in because Steam sells games with DRMs, but GOG on the other hand will not sell games that come with any type of DRM at all.

        I’m sure if Valve had the choice, they’d banish DRMs too, but I’m sure they don’t because they don’t want to piss off their big publishers (even though drm literally does nothing except make paying customers have a worse experience with their shitty games).

        (I don’t really agree with “oritented to publishers”, especially when they release features like a more polish family library, but i guess i can see their point in some ways)

    • domdanial@reddthat.com
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      6 days ago

      Well, steam isn’t just a marketplace. A marketplace would be just a place to buy keys, or similar. Steam is an ecosystem, with a market, and a launcher, and a community hub, and a modding platform. The multiplayer integration that many games rely on for matchmaking/lobbies. And every game on steam uses at least steam’s DRM, where you are required to connect to the Internet every now and then to verify ownership of your library.

      They have been the only platform to really try to support Linux though, and have made huge strides in the last few years. Steam is a big enough influence on the games economy that some of their choices become industry standards. And the 30% cut is the price devs pay to get into their system.

      • Holytimes@sh.itjust.works
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        6 days ago

        Like 95% of steam games are drm free… The only reason steam has to be running is cause games are bundled with a dll that enables the overlay, cloud sync etc. it’s just removable and your games don’t rely on steam at all.

        No check in, no drm, no nothing.

        It’s basically only the biggest triple A games that use steamDRM.

      • BillyTheKid2@lemmy.ca
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        6 days ago

        Like the previous poster, I’m not defending steam. No good billionaires, fight for the proletariat, down with the elite, etc

        Not all steam games use steam DRM. It’s opt in by the developer. Lots of steam games you can literally just copy out of steam onto a USB key and run it. No DRM at all.

        Don’t get me wrong they are skeezy in other ways (charging I indie deva 30% and big publishers less) but if you’re going to criticize them, then at least criticize them for something real.

    • GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world
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      6 days ago

      Steam.

      Owned by Valve.

      Published CS:GO.

      Home to the most deprived gambling economy, that set the blueprint for others to follow.

      Fuck Valve.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
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      6 days ago

      Steam: i’m gonna need an internet connection and dictate your OS also you need to run my shit to game

      Gog: fuck if i care, here’s the exe

      • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        We know you full of bs tho when you say they dictate the OS, even though they’re the ones who have contributed most to gaming on Linux.

        • Taleya@aussie.zone
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          5 days ago

          Try running it on anything that doesn’t support chromium v115

          edit: If you don’t understand why people don’t want chromium forced on them, maybe you should sit down.

              • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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                5 days ago

                Well you started spouting nonsense so I assumed you were a bot.

                Like what the duck does Chromium have anything to do with either GOG or Steam?

      • LwL@lemmy.world
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        6 days ago

        If the dev doesn’t opt to implement steams drm, you can also just run the exe. Downloading it requires the client vs. GOG allowing you to dl the game from their website, but that’s about the only difference (GOG outright refusing any games with DRM is incredibly based though and a great reason to buy on GOG over steam)

        And that can be quite helpful. Just yesterday I had a game that wouldn’t launch via steam, but for some reason worked fine if I just ran it as an executable via protontricks.

        • Taleya@aussie.zone
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          5 days ago

          I had a game that wouldn’t launch via steam, but for some reason worked fine if I just ran it as an executable via protontricks.

          You do realise that’s actually requiring you to modify things you shou;don’t have to in order to access things that you’ve paid for, right?

          • LwL@lemmy.world
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            5 days ago

            No, because the game does not support linux, so I never paid for it to work on linux. The fact that most games do anyway, usually out of the box and without any issues, is largely thanks to valve.

  • Eiri@lemmy.ca
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    7 days ago

    I feel like GOG would be more popular if their client were better. Maybe more usable with a controller too?

    And something that would help competition in the game launcher space in particular would be if OSes had great built-in controller support (and controller OS navigation) so we wouldn’t have to rely on Steam for it.

    • calliope@retrolemmy.com
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      7 days ago

      If they do it for others, like in film, tv, or theater, they’re also called costume designers.

      Always seemed like a neat career!

    • frongt@lemmy.zip
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      6 days ago

      A costumer is someone who puts others in a costume. They might do cosplay themselves, but it’s not part of the job.

  • iegod@lemmy.zip
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    6 days ago

    You do you but I don’t reject any platform or publisher and treat each game/sale on a case by case basis as it suits me. If the product is good enough I will put up with additional installations.

  • chunes@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    An under-discussed topic is what will happen to Steam after Gaben crosses the rainbow bridge. It’s practically begging to be enshittified.

    With games I own, I never have to worry about this.

  • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    My own negative experiences with Steam vs GOG were:

    • Moving homes and having no landline Internet for a while and not being able to most install most of my Steam games on my desktop gaming PC because mobile Internet is slow and expensive so installing a big game literally costs money. With GOG I just downloaded the offline installer at work into a USB Flash Disk and then installed it on my desktop at home.
    • Not being able to install perfectly functional games from Steam into a machine with an old Windows version because the Steam client didn’t support it anymore (even though the games were compatible with that version). Mind you, you that machine shouldn’t even be connected to the Internet for safety reasons, which again would stop me from installing games from Steam even if the client worked.

    Beyond that with Steam you have the risk that Steam takes away one or more of your game for some reason (say, licensing problems or just Payment Processors pressuring them to do it), you lose access to your account and can’t recover it (unusual, but possible), your account is forcibly closed for an arbitrary reason with no appeal (not happened yet with Steam but did happen with others such as Google), the store goes bankrupt and closes (not happened yet with steam but has happened with sellers of music with DRM if I remember it correctly), games without DRM or with Steam’s light DRM (the one simply using steam_api.dll, for which there are implementations which just emulate the API without phoning home) get forcibly updated to hard DRM so whilst before you could run it offline, now you can’t.

    (Mind you, you get some of these problems - such as risking the loss of your entire game collection if the store goes belly up - with GOG if you just use GOG Galaxy and don’t download the offline installers for all your games, but at least there it’s entirely down to you as the store does nothing to make it harder for you to eliminate those risks)

    Steam makes a lot of effort to keep itself inside the loop of gamers playing the games, not forcibly so (as somebody pointed out, they don’t force developers to use DRM) but more with a soft sales push (they offer it for free to developers and publishers and purposefully a bunch of “easy to implement” online features such as Achievements to using the “phone home” Steam DRM to induce developers to use it). They also do not at all indicate before a purchase on the Steam store if a game has Steam DRM or not, so that consumers have to go out of their way to make an informed buying decision, if at all possible. Even for the games on Steam without any DRM one has to actually use an unsupported process to keep a copy of that game after installed from Steam (a simple copy & paste which those who know what a filesystem is can do, though maybe not the less tech literate, though gamers tend to be more tech literate), so people tend not to do it. The result is that most Steam games have DRM and most game playing done on games from Steam involves the phone-home check of the Steam DRM.

    Meanwhile in GOG it’s the exact opposite - people have to really go crazily out of their way to run a game from GOG with DRM (apparently there are one or two which slipped the net, and for others I guess you could implement your own DRM around it by encrypting the binary or something 😜)

    Ultimately it boils down to weather one is comfortable or not with having for their games collection the risks I listed above.

    Personally, with my almost 4 decades experience as a gamer (and almost that much as a Techie), I’m not at all comfortable with that since over the years I’ve seen multiple instances of people getting fucked by their software or even hardware being unnecessarily tied to a vendor for their normal usage loop.

    That said, people going into this aware of the risks and still cool with them, then, hey, 👍, you’re an adult, making a well informed decision and will only affect yourself it the risks do materialized into a problem, so you’ll get no criticism from me.

    • Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Moving homes and having no landline Internet for a while and not being able to most install most of my Steam games on my desktop gaming PC because mobile Internet is slow and expensive so installing a big game literally costs money. With GOG I just downloaded the offline installer at work into a USB Flash Disk and then installed it on my desktop at home.

      You can do that with steam. Just needs steam to check the files and done.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        6 days ago

        Are you saying that from the Steam Store you can download an offline installer?

        Or is it a not officially supported process that some users figured out, involving running Steam on the work PC, installing the game there, copying the installation files over (or maybe the installer itself from the Steam cache) to the home PC and then runninb Steam there, online to verify/execute the installation.

        Because if it is the latter, I don’t think it qualifies as “the same thing” as what I described I did with GOG. That’s more of an undocumented hack than an actual store feature.

        • hoppolito@mander.xyz
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          6 days ago

          While I agree you with in principle - the official support is not the same - I don’t think the two processes are as far fetched from each other as you make them out to be.

          I have ‘offline installer’ backups for a few of my drm free steam games, for which I basically downloaded the game, zipped up the game directory and that’s that. Now I have an equally portable game as the gog installers.

          The big difference is that you need to run the steam client to initiate the original download in the first place, and that’s definitely a difference in quality of life - no argument there.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            6 days ago

            Steam purposefully pushed and pushes for there to be unecessary hurdles in installing and running the games customers buy from them, which do not benefit their customers but do benefit Steam, and which did not exist in most games before Steam (“offline” installers was the default way to install games until the Steam Store).

            They don’t do it in a nasty way that tries hard to stop people from finding workarounds to that, so some customers will then find hacks to work around such obstacles, and hacks by definition are not supported and in this case do not work reliably for all games.

            Steam not tightenning it down as much as they can and thus there being ways around it for some games, doesn’t make it any less true that Steam has a policy of trying to get the games that they sell to have an unecessary reduction of customer freedom that does not deliver anything to the customer, and that they don’t disclose which games do and which don’t so that the customer can’t easilly make an informed decision on that factor.

            (Compare it to how GOG does make available GOG Galaxy which will does deliver the same core positive features as the Steam App, such as automated updating, but doesn’t actually force customers to use it at all for any game. Personally I installed the thing once, looked around, uninstalled it and went back to downloading installers)

            My problem is with that policy of trying to limiting the freedom to use the product, for Steam’s benefit and in a way that doesn’t benefit customers in any way form or shape, even if it’s done via the soft sales push to developers/publishers rather than leveraging their dominant market position as a game store to force it on developers/publishers, together with some purposeful obfuscation in the games listings so that customers when buying don’t just start favoring games not crippled with those freedom limitations.

            No matter how Steam makes it happen, ultimatelly what customers get from Steam is “likely crippled, might be able to hack my way around it for some but I don’t know which” games., which compares negativelly with GOG who have a policy for all games of being “guaranteed not crippled in this way or similar”.

            It makes total sense that this then reflects on whether as a customer I’m willing to buy or not a game from Steam and even in being willing to pay a bit more for a game which is guaranteed to not come purposefully crippled in the way most Steam games are.

            “There’s an easy undocumented workaround that works for some games” doesn’t really alter the reality that Steam is purposefully set up to keep customers tied to Steam for things where there is no need for customers to be tied to Steam. Steam could’ve moved towards a model like GOG were customers use their app simply because it’s convenient, nice and delivers desired features rather than because they have no other option than use it, but Steam haven’t moved to that model.

            Mind you, I’m not saying that people shouldn’t buy from Steam, I’m saying that they should be well aware that Steam is trying to sell them products which have had some features purposefully crippled for Steam’s benefit and to force customers to use the Steam App, and if knowing this those people are still fine with it, then it’s their choice.

            • hoppolito@mander.xyz
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              6 days ago

              And I generally agreed with you above.

              But from my reading you just spent 9 paragraphs simply to restate

              you need to run the steam client to initiate the original download in the first place, and that’s definitely a difference in quality of life

              • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                6 days ago

                Well that, how that is not reliable and requires specific knowledge to do, how most people don’t know how to do it because it’s not at all advertised and how all that is an anti-feature negative to customers and which doesn’t at all need to be there.

                But yeah, I definitelly tend to ramble on and on (and on, and on, and on …).