As someone who isn’t a fan of Guilliman coming back and actually being a noble ruler (as opposed to previously the super sketchy high lords, who I thought fit a grim dark degraded tone much more), I’ve always considered 40k to be the bad ending. If there was a video game, the 40k we know would be an ending slide that happened when the player had truly made terrible choices. The game is over and we are stuck in the bad outcome. It won’t get better.
Humanity in 40k is collectively a corpse that doesn’t know or accept that it’s already dead (just like the emperor himself- symbolism!). The most humanity can do are have brief moments of staving of things getting worse. Humanity can at massive cost and misery preserve a terrible status quo every now and then and call it a victory, but even the victories just lead to losses and the losses keep leading to the final death of humanity.
Yeah, that’s exactly why the Imperium should embrace Chaos. Chaos has been advocating for the survival of the Imperium for a long time and are actually the good guys. They got so close with the Horus Heresy but the Imperium, being the conservatives they are, decided that it wouldn’t be the best.
Chaos will give the Empire the power it needs and usher in a new golden age of prosperity and will bring all those filthy Xenos to heel. The Empire is dying, but for it to live the Emperor needs to die. Death to the false emperor. ☀️
Well if you go by the predictions of the Cabal, 40k is the bad ending at least when it pertains to the galaxy as a whole. Chaos slowly grows feeding on the corruption and unending war that humanity brings while none of the species truly flourish (except for maybe the orks and the tyranids).
Whether it is the good ending when it pertains to humanity only is up for debate because there are several hints dropped in 30k that this was only outcome which ensured humanities survival
I prefer wide sweeping and impressionistic views when it comes to tone and theme.
Hints of intricate plots in passing are much more interesting than actually sitting down and mapping them out play by play in detail.
In this wide sweeping view that puts tone above all else, I very much lean to a view that humanity was doomed a long time ago and is simply being stubborn about the inevitable.
I prefer wide sweeping and impressionistic views when it comes to tone and theme. Hints of intricate plots in passing are much more interesting
I am not a literature student but aren’t hints of intricate plots in passing kind of an opposite to wide sweeping views because they will never give a wide enough view¿?
Wide sweeping, as in a high level view that only briefly touches on things like these deep plots without dwelling on them.
Many of the plots and pieces of lore in 40k were introduced intentionally as snippets that weren’t ever thought out fully. They were introduced to give the idea of plots existing and to create a tone. Later writers coming in and fleshing out those snippets often turned something mysterious into something convoluted.
I actually like Papa Blueberry getting to wake up and say “What the fuck” to really emphasize that even the ancient space crusader thinks this future is FUCKED, but I have no faith in Gee Dubs to go anywhere worthwhile with it.
Leadership and progress and hope are all things that have no place in 40k. Guilliman is a noble person who brings these things in amounts uncomfortable for the setting. Therefore he has no place in 40k. He needs to exist only as a long dead legend that people wish they had, but he is gone- just one more piece of hope that can’t be brought back.
Gulliman waking up and being absolutely shocked at the sight of things only works if he is immediately put back into stasis by the high lords for their own petty reasons, but that’s not happening so the entire tone of 40k has shifted with him being awake and in charge. Not just with him, but he is something easy to point at as an example.
More people getting into 40k think the Imperium are “the good guys” because while the set dressing of candles and power armor and gothic buildings are still around, the insane mindset of the people in 40k has been softened, at least in presentation quite a lot in enough ways that it is understandable why people new to 40k now think humanity is good.
To be entirely fair, the nature of 40k as a vehicle for selling miniatures (and thus changing with the tastes of the market, or what the execs think the market likes) has meant that its tone has changed radically over the years. But that’s really the trouble with a long-running universe without a clear guiding vision. Everyone scrapes together bits and pieces from the era they got into it, and then looks at that as the ‘truest’ version of the universe.
For what it’s worth, I’m generally in agreement that the grimdarkness of the grimdark future is what sets 40k most apart from other settings, and trying to shift that over to a more Warhammer Fantasy tone of “Things are BAD but there are still people Fighting The Good Fight” isn’t the right direction to take it. Especially after trying to kill off Warhammer Fantasy. I love Ciaphias Cain, but his popularity is a contributor to this too.
I still remember my introductions to 40k - a demo disc with Dawn of War on it, and subsequently, when enthusing to a friend about it, being shown a hodgepodge of collectibles and a Tyranid rulebook which had BIG fucking Aliens vibes. Good shit. Remorseless fanatics, lost and brutalized worlds, warrior-monks of a religion of war (but not blind berserking rage), hardened conscripts against horrors they only dimly glanced? Fuck, that was such a new and novel aesthetic. I was entranced from the start.
As someone who isn’t a fan of Guilliman coming back and actually being a noble ruler (as opposed to previously the super sketchy high lords, who I thought fit a grim dark degraded tone much more), I’ve always considered 40k to be the bad ending. If there was a video game, the 40k we know would be an ending slide that happened when the player had truly made terrible choices. The game is over and we are stuck in the bad outcome. It won’t get better.
Humanity in 40k is collectively a corpse that doesn’t know or accept that it’s already dead (just like the emperor himself- symbolism!). The most humanity can do are have brief moments of staving of things getting worse. Humanity can at massive cost and misery preserve a terrible status quo every now and then and call it a victory, but even the victories just lead to losses and the losses keep leading to the final death of humanity.
Yeah, that’s exactly why the Imperium should embrace Chaos. Chaos has been advocating for the survival of the Imperium for a long time and are actually the good guys. They got so close with the Horus Heresy but the Imperium, being the conservatives they are, decided that it wouldn’t be the best.
Chaos will give the Empire the power it needs and usher in a new golden age of prosperity and will bring all those filthy Xenos to heel. The Empire is dying, but for it to live the Emperor needs to die. Death to the false emperor. ☀️
Yes, Inquisitor, this one right here.
The inquisition is just Khorne worship with extra steps
Disgusting.
🙃
Well if you go by the predictions of the Cabal, 40k is the bad ending at least when it pertains to the galaxy as a whole. Chaos slowly grows feeding on the corruption and unending war that humanity brings while none of the species truly flourish (except for maybe the orks and the tyranids).
Whether it is the good ending when it pertains to humanity only is up for debate because there are several hints dropped in 30k that this was only outcome which ensured humanities survival
I prefer wide sweeping and impressionistic views when it comes to tone and theme.
Hints of intricate plots in passing are much more interesting than actually sitting down and mapping them out play by play in detail.
In this wide sweeping view that puts tone above all else, I very much lean to a view that humanity was doomed a long time ago and is simply being stubborn about the inevitable.
I am not a literature student but aren’t hints of intricate plots in passing kind of an opposite to wide sweeping views because they will never give a wide enough view¿?
Wide sweeping, as in a high level view that only briefly touches on things like these deep plots without dwelling on them.
Many of the plots and pieces of lore in 40k were introduced intentionally as snippets that weren’t ever thought out fully. They were introduced to give the idea of plots existing and to create a tone. Later writers coming in and fleshing out those snippets often turned something mysterious into something convoluted.
Agreed and this is why the horus heresy book series was an awful idea.
It has removed all nuance and discussion about the most important formative conflict in the setting.
Now the war in heaven is the big murky historical conflict that set the stage…. But thankfully it is safe because it’s only Xenos.
I’ve been thinking that for a while. But sadly it made them an ridiculous amount of cash. :/
Also, some more hot takes from me:
I actually like Papa Blueberry getting to wake up and say “What the fuck” to really emphasize that even the ancient space crusader thinks this future is FUCKED, but I have no faith in Gee Dubs to go anywhere worthwhile with it.
Leadership and progress and hope are all things that have no place in 40k. Guilliman is a noble person who brings these things in amounts uncomfortable for the setting. Therefore he has no place in 40k. He needs to exist only as a long dead legend that people wish they had, but he is gone- just one more piece of hope that can’t be brought back.
Gulliman waking up and being absolutely shocked at the sight of things only works if he is immediately put back into stasis by the high lords for their own petty reasons, but that’s not happening so the entire tone of 40k has shifted with him being awake and in charge. Not just with him, but he is something easy to point at as an example.
More people getting into 40k think the Imperium are “the good guys” because while the set dressing of candles and power armor and gothic buildings are still around, the insane mindset of the people in 40k has been softened, at least in presentation quite a lot in enough ways that it is understandable why people new to 40k now think humanity is good.
To be entirely fair, the nature of 40k as a vehicle for selling miniatures (and thus changing with the tastes of the market, or what the execs think the market likes) has meant that its tone has changed radically over the years. But that’s really the trouble with a long-running universe without a clear guiding vision. Everyone scrapes together bits and pieces from the era they got into it, and then looks at that as the ‘truest’ version of the universe.
For what it’s worth, I’m generally in agreement that the grimdarkness of the grimdark future is what sets 40k most apart from other settings, and trying to shift that over to a more Warhammer Fantasy tone of “Things are BAD but there are still people Fighting The Good Fight” isn’t the right direction to take it. Especially after trying to kill off Warhammer Fantasy. I love Ciaphias Cain, but his popularity is a contributor to this too.
I still remember my introductions to 40k - a demo disc with Dawn of War on it, and subsequently, when enthusing to a friend about it, being shown a hodgepodge of collectibles and a Tyranid rulebook which had BIG fucking Aliens vibes. Good shit. Remorseless fanatics, lost and brutalized worlds, warrior-monks of a religion of war (but not blind berserking rage), hardened conscripts against horrors they only dimly glanced? Fuck, that was such a new and novel aesthetic. I was entranced from the start.