Not Russian, but 35 years ago there was a widely repeated translation joke: The slogan “come alive with the Pepsi generation” was translated into Chinese, but it literally meant “Pepsi revives your dead ancestors.”
That example may be apocryphal, but translations are interesting. It’s something to be mindful of when talking with otherwise fluent ESL people.
I had a very intelligent and fluent coworker who knew the English phrase “to shag” from the Austin Powers movies. She completely misinterpreted the meaning of “a shag carpet,” though. It was so funny (and came up so infrequently) that no one ever corrected her.
I know that in general, proverbs are difficult to translate because they assume a lot of cultural knowledge to convey their idea.
Like if I say to you “bird in the hand”, you’ll understand that I’m referencing the notion that there’s value to a sure thing that can outweigh the value of potentially having more.
If you ever watch a UN speech, the translators sometimes pause for a bit to figure out how to convey not just the literal words, but also the meaning and the meaning in context.
onion sorrow
the horse did not roll
There are elderberries in the kitchen garden, and your uncle in Kiev
There’s a pretty good Nicole Kidman thriller called ‘The Interpreter.’ Kidman plays a UN translator. There’s a cute little throwaway scene where some of her colleagues are chatting. One says the the American used the phrase ‘pie in the sky’ and she had to change it to ‘castles in Spain.’
In last season of “The Boy” one of the characters used a russian proverb “Trust but verify” and I learned that it was popularized in USA by Ronald Reagan.
I didn’t say “untranslatable”. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Though there are sayings that are virtually untranslatable between cultures because their conceptions of the world are so different.
It’s often very difficult to translate sayings across cultures, because there’s no one-to-one mapping of words, let alone ideas/concepts.
Take a look even at the difference between French and English, where how you count isn’t even close to the same. Then read some Moliere and Shakespeare, seeing how their wordplay is different because of language differences. And these are two countries with a long relationship, with French spoken by the upper classes in Shakespeare’s time.
I have several books of sayings/proverbs collections, and it’s fascinating to read things translated by people with extensive understanding and knowledge. Even then, sometimes the best translations are just incomprehensible to me, since I grew up in a culture that’s vastly different from the origin.
Very old sayings are especially interesting (e.g. Things written in something like Sanskrit). It can be so difficult to connect to a culture that hasn’t existed in so long (or has an existing great-great-great grandchild that’s quite different).
Again, even from US English to British English can be surprisingly opaque, sharing a common language but unique environs.
Take for example sayings like “my cross to bear” and “good Samaritan”. Those are both from the bible, but they’re oblique references to saying that require a LOT of explanation themselves, but they’re so ingrained you can just reference the full saying to get the message across.
If I were to say, reference “one thing which never dies”, pretty much everyone would be guessing at the meaning. Basically nobody knows it’s a reference to a saying about the reputation people leave behind after death, based on the Norse Edda’s.
The lesson seems to be that how people know you is the most important thing in life, beyond family and your life. And that explanation doesn’t cover it, because none of us have the correct cultural background to interpret it. (If you happen to be a scholar, I’ll happily be corrected).
What I found most interesting about this episode was how real it actually is.
Russian proverbs are well-known to often be incomprehensible to someone who didn’t grow up there.
Translating across most languages is difficult just for this reason. Sayings can be difficult to grok even between British and US English.
Have ya got any more of those untranslatable Russian proverbs?
Not Russian, but 35 years ago there was a widely repeated translation joke: The slogan “come alive with the Pepsi generation” was translated into Chinese, but it literally meant “Pepsi revives your dead ancestors.”
That example may be apocryphal, but translations are interesting. It’s something to be mindful of when talking with otherwise fluent ESL people.
I had a very intelligent and fluent coworker who knew the English phrase “to shag” from the Austin Powers movies. She completely misinterpreted the meaning of “a shag carpet,” though. It was so funny (and came up so infrequently) that no one ever corrected her.
I know that in general, proverbs are difficult to translate because they assume a lot of cultural knowledge to convey their idea.
Like if I say to you “bird in the hand”, you’ll understand that I’m referencing the notion that there’s value to a sure thing that can outweigh the value of potentially having more.
If you ever watch a UN speech, the translators sometimes pause for a bit to figure out how to convey not just the literal words, but also the meaning and the meaning in context.
There’s a pretty good Nicole Kidman thriller called ‘The Interpreter.’ Kidman plays a UN translator. There’s a cute little throwaway scene where some of her colleagues are chatting. One says the the American used the phrase ‘pie in the sky’ and she had to change it to ‘castles in Spain.’
Is onion sorrow something similar to crocodile tears?
I believe it’s closer to “no use crying over spilt milk”. “Unhelpful sadness or remorse”.
Not OP but I got curious and found a whole section on Wikiquote devoted to Russian proverbs. Here’s one example:
It’s kind of hurting my brain.
I checked out a different site, with similar results.
May your goat cart fly to St Petersburg on a road lined with beets! [just made that one up]
In last season of “The Boy” one of the characters used a russian proverb “Trust but verify” and I learned that it was popularized in USA by Ronald Reagan.
A lot of Americans think Reagan invented that proverb.
Not Russian but.
Stick in the eye to the one who remembers the old.
Spring of pussies.
Not all the Moomins are in the valley.
I didn’t say “untranslatable”. Please don’t put words in my mouth.
Though there are sayings that are virtually untranslatable between cultures because their conceptions of the world are so different.
It’s often very difficult to translate sayings across cultures, because there’s no one-to-one mapping of words, let alone ideas/concepts.
Take a look even at the difference between French and English, where how you count isn’t even close to the same. Then read some Moliere and Shakespeare, seeing how their wordplay is different because of language differences. And these are two countries with a long relationship, with French spoken by the upper classes in Shakespeare’s time.
I have several books of sayings/proverbs collections, and it’s fascinating to read things translated by people with extensive understanding and knowledge. Even then, sometimes the best translations are just incomprehensible to me, since I grew up in a culture that’s vastly different from the origin.
Very old sayings are especially interesting (e.g. Things written in something like Sanskrit). It can be so difficult to connect to a culture that hasn’t existed in so long (or has an existing great-great-great grandchild that’s quite different).
Again, even from US English to British English can be surprisingly opaque, sharing a common language but unique environs.
Take for example sayings like “my cross to bear” and “good Samaritan”. Those are both from the bible, but they’re oblique references to saying that require a LOT of explanation themselves, but they’re so ingrained you can just reference the full saying to get the message across.
If I were to say, reference “one thing which never dies”, pretty much everyone would be guessing at the meaning. Basically nobody knows it’s a reference to a saying about the reputation people leave behind after death, based on the Norse Edda’s.
The lesson seems to be that how people know you is the most important thing in life, beyond family and your life. And that explanation doesn’t cover it, because none of us have the correct cultural background to interpret it. (If you happen to be a scholar, I’ll happily be corrected).
It was a play on a famous meme.
No, but have some Lithuanian ones.
Don’t spit in a well as one day you may drink from it.
Bend the tree while it is young.
Flax is not yet sown and they are already weaving the linen.
You will know a horse by his teeth and a man by his talk.
God gave teeth, God will provide the bread.
Cat stroking leads to hump raising.
Old love does not rust.
The shoemaker is always barefoot.
Whatever you do, do it well.
There is no medicine that can cure stupidity.
Well begun, is half done.
Idioms
Spoons after supper (too late to bring something up)
hang noodles on the ears (try to fool someone)
like a fifth leg for a dog (something useless)
don’t say ‘wheee’ before jumping over the ditch (too early to brag about something)
sitting like they were just kissed (to be lost and disoriented)
walking like they just sold the land (to be sad)
catch the corner (to grasp the meaning)
my roof is riding away (I am losing my mind)
it’s a fact like a pancake (something easy to accept)
to pour from an empty container into a leaky one (to talk without saying anything meaningful)
go and visit the dwarves (visit the bathroom)
like a finger in the eye (to say something accurate)
it left on the dog’s tail (a plan that failed)
cutting a mushroom (to do useless work)
to shepherd the eyes (look at something nice)
wrap words in cotton wool (trying to speak nicely about a difficult subject)
to leave someone on ice (to abandon someone)
show the goats (to cry and scream when you don’t get what you want)
to clarify a relationship (to fight someone)
Thanks.
Here’s my favorite bit of Americana.
“Chin music.”
Needless chatter, as when sports fans jeer the opposition.
Or, specifically in baseball, to throw a pitch near the batter’s face to intimidate them.