• pistonfish@feddit.org
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    1 day ago

    Keep in mind that nonstick cookware is still very safe when handled correctly. The problem lies in the manufacturing of these needed chemicals. When these chemicals get into the environment, because of improper safety management, it will stay there for hundreds of years, taking it’s toll on flora and fauna.

    • nialv7@lemmy.world
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      7 hours ago

      Does Teflon even break down into PFAS at all? From what I read I think it doesn’t.

    • Zacryon@feddit.org
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      22 hours ago

      very safe when handled correctly

      Too many people are not educated about that.

      The problem lies in the manufacturing of these needed chemicals. When these chemicals get into the environment, because of improper safety managemen

      Which is one of the reasons for that law, see:

      Dubbed “Amara’s Law” after 20-year-old cancer victim Amara Strande, who in 2023 succumbed to a rare type of liver cancer linked to PFAS after growing up near a Minnesota-based 3M plant that dumped them into the local water supply, the new regulation bans the chemicals and any items made with them from being sold within the state.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        21 hours ago

        Too many people are not educated about that.

        I’ve never met the sort of idiots who put an empty pan on some turbo heat or use metal with nonstick, but I know they’re out there.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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            12 hours ago

            Nice to meet you

            *pushes all the nonstick pans into a cupboard to keep them safe*

        • TheOakTree@lemm.ee
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          17 hours ago

          You’re lucky then. I have had multiple flatmates who don’t understand what a nonstick pan is, scraped the pans up, and continued to use them. Despite warning.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          18 hours ago

          You’ve never known anyone to forget a pan on the stove? I know several and even did it once myself

          You’ve never kept a nonstick pan despite visible damage to the coating “it looks ok…”?

          You’ve never kept a “good” non-stick pan past its recommended life expectancy?

          What about the broiler? Even though I should know better, it was just this year when I finally made the connection that I’ve been using a non-stick baking sheet under the broiler for decades.

            • AA5B@lemmy.world
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              17 hours ago

              You can find online a lot of surprisingly short life expectancies for non-stick pans. Most commonly you should replace after 5-7 years or any visible sign of damage to the coating. Do you make sure to replace all your pans by then?

              PFOA was legal until I think 2012. That’s not only a failure of the government to establish safe standards, but all too many people kept that cookware years past when it was no longer used, perhaps even until today.

              Non-stick cookware can off-gas toxic fumes when used too hot. A common broiler can do that: you should not use non-stick pans under a broiler. However most bakeware is non-stick. An actual broiler pan uses a ceramic coating to withstand the higher temperatures: you should not just use any bakeware of the right shape.

              • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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                16 hours ago

                If my pans start breaking then ofc I will replace them.

                PFOA was legal until I think 2012. That’s not only a failure of the government to establish safe standards, but all too many people kept that cookware years past when it was no longer used, perhaps even until today.

                I thought cookware wasn’t really a concern here, more the plants making it and it getting into drinking water, being used in food packaging, that sort of stuff. “Overall, PTFE cookware is considered an insignificant exposure pathway to PFOA.”

                Non-stick cookware can off-gas toxic fumes when used too hot. A common broiler can do that: you should not use non-stick pans under a broiler. However most bakeware is non-stick. An actual broiler pan uses a ceramic coating to withstand the higher temperatures: you should not just use any bakeware of the right shape.

                You need to heat it up to 260’C which is quite hot. I haven’t had the heat limit be an issue personally.

                • AA5B@lemmy.world
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                  14 hours ago

                  Cookware isn’t a major vector for pfoa anymore

                  By 2007, studies showed that the concentration of PFOA in a sample of the U.S. population’s bloodstream (collected in 2003-2004) was 25 percent less than that in samples collected in 1999-2000

                  Normal cooking appliances can be hot enough both on stovetop (such as with a dry pan left on a burner) and in the broiler to damage non-stick coatings

                  Teflon and other coatings can begin to break down when the temperature reaches 500˚F

                  Yeah I guess that converts to 260°C but the point is that ovens do get this hot

                  • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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                    13 hours ago

                    Was the concentration in cookware a higher source of expose some time before? I know the situation with PFOA was worse before, but afaik it was even back then due to other concerns than the cookware.

        • Zink@programming.dev
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          20 hours ago

          Spoken like somebody who did not marry a person that is even more careless and ADHD than themselves, lol.

            • Zink@programming.dev
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              17 hours ago

              Fortunately we only have one tiny nonstick pan that she uses for occasional eggs. And I’m the only one that uses the carbon steel wok or occasionally cast iron.

              For everything else, stainless steel with an internal aluminum layer, and a nice black circle in the center of the pans, haha.

    • Fenrisulfir@lemmy.ca
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      22 hours ago

      And how do you dispose of it correctly? Cookware shouldn’t need to come with an MSDS sheet

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        21 hours ago

        Put it in the metal recycling bin in my case. But depends on your local recycling/waste management system.

        • Emerald@lemmy.world
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          17 hours ago

          Yeah I think you’re in the minority which your teflon recycling. Mine doesn’t even do paper

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        That’s the first part, used correctly it’s a non issue so just use your nonstick correctly.

        • snowe@programming.dev
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          4 hours ago

          recent studies have stated that the pans offgas from manufacturing for weeks after you’ve bought them, no heating needed, so no, that’s not correct. and it was known that they offgas at only 325ºF years ago. https://www.ewg.org/research/canaries-kitchen

          so no, teflon pans are bad no matter how you use them, they’re bad for the environment, they’re bad for your health, they’re bad for animals, they’re bad for babies that haven’t been born yet.

        • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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          1 day ago

          Using nonstick correctly: Dont use anything but silicone spatulas on it, do not use more than 50% of your stoves power or gas stove or you will get cancer and die. Buy a new one every 5 years anyway since it somehow became stick pan.

          Using stainless pan: Find it from some junk metal pile, discover it was manufactured in the roman empire, give it a good scrub. Use it on any source imaginable and when hawk thuah slides around instead of sizzles, it’s good to go.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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            21 hours ago

            Using nonstick correctly: Don’t use metal and don’t heat it over 260 °C

          • brad_troika (he/him)@lemm.ee
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            24 hours ago

            Source on the pan giving you cancer?

            Yes, non-stick becomes stick because the teflon coating comes off, it’s really hard to make teflon stick to anything. Using metal utensils will hasten this but afaik simply using heat will help loosen the teflon coating.

            I don’t mind buying a new non-stick pan about every 5 years (last one lasted 7), I usuall stick to the cheapest ones, they serve a specific service to me that stainless ones can’t do.

            • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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              22 hours ago

              Are you really asking “provide proofs of a pan I am warned to not heat up too much as the vapours will cause flu like symptoms and kill pet avians is bad for my health.” is bad for you? It is. Why do you think you need to buy new pans every x years? Cause the non-stick layer wears off. Do bits of coating that contain top tier carciogens which are considered safe unless ingested magically vanish into the void? Yes. Except the void is your body.

              I have been relying on my teflons less and less the more I get good with the stainless. I’ve now been making crepes and japanese omlets with less sticking than my few years old teflons.

              • brad_troika (he/him)@lemm.ee
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                19 hours ago

                Afaik the coating is not a carcinogen only under certain circumstances like high heat can it produce something unsafe but even there it’s just potential, not yet proved to be carcinogenic but feel free to prove me wrong.

                • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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                  17 hours ago

                  https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-prevention/chemicals/teflon-and-perfluorooctanoic-acid-pfoa.html It says it ssafe since it’s tightly bound to the pan. I guess its true, its completely 100% safe. After all, there is no reason for anyone who owns a non stick pan to ever buy a new one since they keep being nonstick for generations, right? Surely even if you treat your pan just as they say, it means the coating doesn’t wear off, right? And us educated people we know once something wears via abrasion it means it leaves behind no residue, right?

                  • brad_troika (he/him)@lemm.ee
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                    15 hours ago

                    Are we reading the same article? It doesn’t say it’s bound to the pan. Why bother to choose a source that you don’t read and disagrees with you?

              • brad_troika (he/him)@lemm.ee
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                19 hours ago

                The part you quoted says nothing about cancer, article only mentions potential risks with no evidence and no article cited. I’m sorry but articles like these are why people believe chocolate cures cancer or sitting down is as bad as smoking.

                I don’t claim there’s no connection but so far I’ve seen no evidence.

            • HikingVet@lemmy.ca
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              23 hours ago

              I bought a cheap stainless pan about 20 years ago. Don’t have issues with food sticking, don’t have to worry abouy coatings coming off, and if the handle breaks I can make a new one.

              Coating breaks down, stainless doesn’t.

              • nomy@lemmy.zip
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                19 hours ago

                I have a mix of stainless steel and cast iron. I’m not terribly worried about consuming small amounts of either of those.

                A bonus is that because it’s all metal I can use most of it in ovens or while cooking outdoors.

                Sticking isn’t really that much of an issue if you’re careful. I feel like non-stick would’ve never taken off if people knew how toxic it was in 1970.

        • I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          In other words don’t do what I did and put half a litre into a $6 pot on your new induction cooktop and set it to 2kW to see how long it takes to boil.

          It boils quick.

          It then boils more enthusiastically than you’ve ever seen before, and a cancerous stench fills the air as the coating breaks down and the pot deforms.

        • Valmond@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          Like throw it away every 6 months.

          Edit: or 1 or 2 years, it was hyperbole. Instead of like never throwing it out?

          • pistonfish@feddit.org
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            1 day ago

            The nonstick pans I’ve using are several years old now without any signs of deteriorating nonstick surfaces. Use cookware out of wood or plastic to not scrape off the coating.

            • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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              24 hours ago

              I have 1 big nonstick and 1 small nonstick. They never saw high heat, they never saw ANY metal instruments, when stored they are protected by felt so nothing hard touches them, they never seen a steel sponge and they still became regular stick pans 2 years into their lifespan. Before you say “skill issue buying the pan” they were mid level (expensive pans for no cooks) pans from a reputable company. I have been a pro chef as well. Nonsticks are a wear item even if you treat them like shit on a stick. My oldest stainless is like 40 years old, has a huge dent on the side and works the same as it did on day one. I dug it out of someones fishing shed.

              • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                24 hours ago

                I have a kitchen full of nonstick pans. They’ve been in use since my grandma’s mom.

                Got them from grandma.

                Don’t freak out but cast iron was the OG nonstick, right?

                • endeavor@sopuli.xyz
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                  22 hours ago

                  All it takes to become a chef is to accept the back breaking underpaid labour of working in a kitchen and following instructions. There are no preliminary requirements, only time invested.

          • idunnololz@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            I’ve had mine for 2 years now. It’s still non stick and I cook extremely regularly. Eg. 90% of my meals are cooked by me. I think some non stick pans are shit though because one of the ones I own started deteriorating after a year.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
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            1 day ago

            If you use it incorrectly then yeah. You might as well stop making food as well because clearly you don’t know what you’re doing.